As Promised...part 2.1
Greetings and Salutations readers. I’m not going to mince words here in this post…a lot of what I’m about to say will be contrary to your beliefs (most of you)…I just ask that you hear me out. You are entitled to your opinions…and I’m entitled to mine.
I’ve read several books here recently (The Koran (in part), Tao de Ching (in part), Gods Debris (in whole) and others) that have gone contrary to everything that I was taught as a child was TRUTH. “Truth”, I realize, is a relative thing…and I’m beginning to think that religion is just another one of those things that is “true” to those that choose to believe. Please don’t think I’m coming down on Christians as I clearly said “religion” and mean exactly that…RELIGION.
The belief in religion covers at least part of every nation in the world and includes well over 5 Billion people. The problem, for me, lies in the fact that these 5 Billion people believe in over 20 different MAJOR religions and many different sub-sects of that major religion…and then SOME believe that they are right and everyone else is wrong. This has been a major area of contention not only for me, but many other people throughout time.
Take Pascal, for instance: I’m sure you’ve probably not heard of Pascal’s Wager. In it, he states that you have a 50/50 shot of making the right decisions when it comes to religion…either you believe in God or you don’t. Taken contextually and understanding that there are many more religions that claim that they are right and everyone else is wrong, the formula for determining whether you chose the right religion to believe in ends up being P=1/N (where P is your probability of choosing right and N is the number of religions you are capable of choosing from). And yes, I’m paraphrasing and extrapolating a bit…but that’s the basic idea. In a world with 20 major religions, your chances of choosing the right one are only 5%, or if you lump the majority of them together with their major groups, you’re faced with only a 20% chance of having made the right choice.
Another conundrum is posed as follows:
* If God is omniscient, He knows what is going to happen in the future.
* If God is omnipotent, His power is limitless.
* If God knows what is going to happen in the future, then free will is an illusion.
* If everything is pre-ordained, and if God has unlimited power, then the illusion of free will is intentional.
* If the illusion of free will is intentional, and if everything is pre-ordained, and God wants everyone to love Him, but He realizes that not everyone will, then He is powerless (or unwilling) to change this.
* If He is powerless to change this, then His power has a limit and, by definition, He is not omnipotent.
* If He is unwilling to change this, then we are being held accountable for decisions that we did not make, or were not capable of making because they had already been determined due to lack of free will.
* If we are given then choice, however, between choosing to follow God or not [these are the only two options, really, due to the Law of Excluded Middle (something can not BE and NOT BE at the same time…except from a Quantum Physics point of view (Thanks Schroedinger!))] then God is not omniscient because there is no way that he could know what we would choose.
One thought I had while getting ready for work the other day was this: How many Middle Eastern people do you know with the name of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John or Peter? Not terribly many, I would guess. If there aren’t that many people named thusly, then that means their name was changed from something else to those names. If they were changed from something else, then that means that the “divinely inspired book of the Bible” is anything but. It is, or would seem to be, a collection of chosen, loosely connected stories with a moral string that binds them all together. I said “chosen” because I can’t believe (and I’ve read that the opposite is true) that the Bible as we know it is everything that was written, everything that was intended, and anything resembling it in its original form. It’s been translated several times, added to and removed from so many times that the moral thread and some of the stories are the only things that really remain original.
Another problem I have with most religions is blind faith. I am a very tactile person. I have to hold something, tear it apart, look at it, experience it first hand and understand a thing before I can really believe in its capabilities and/or its intentions. I treat people and machines pretty much the same (except for the taking them apart …hehe) in that I don’t really understand them or trust them until I’ve been around them for some time to see how they work. I find it hard to believe in something that has so many unanswered questions and inconsistencies.
I am, by no means, finished with this…there are many thoughts that have gone through my head (all people are inherently evil and religion is there to promote a stable society, etc), but I think I’ve done more than enough damage already. I do want to leave you all with this thought and finally an invitation: Occam’s Razor states All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one.
What are your thoughts? Please feel free to add your thoughts/comments/etc to this blog…or I can just cut and paste emails that I receive about this if wanted. Thanks.
posted by LaTech at 8:15 AM
5 Comments:
WOW!!! What a post... I'm going to try to digest some of that before making any in depth analysis of your post, but let me say that your post is very thoughtful, non-offensive, and very necessary. If we as a people (humanity as a whole and even as individuals), are to continue to progress/grow, we will need to understand ourselves and our beliefs. At some point hopefully all of us will ask these questions and strive for more understanding. Again, I will save my full analysis for another reply, but you're certainly raising some very important issues that need to be thought about, especially at this time of year. The search for truth and understanding (in religion or anything else) is the search for a better understanding of ourselves and our existence. Bravo...
-Webmaster
I'll write more when I can but all I can really say is that with every thing said it boils down to one thing. that you belive in something. be it god or something else../shrug maybe that's just me I dunno..write more latas...on another note..I need to send you a save the date card for my WEDDING!!!!
all the love from my stinky drawers!
Hey, now you know why i can't sleep some nights ;).
Can God make a rock big enough that he can not lift it? If he was powerful enough then he could, but then again he should be powerful enough to lift it!
Ahhhh!!!!! It's a fun cycle isn't it?
For the sake of not writing a 500 page reply, trust me i could on this subject, i will just throw in a few things that i have come to grips with.
I think every "Religion" has had it's teachings altered by man at some point or another. I often have some really stimulating conversations with a few atheist that i knew and their conversation always went "Religion is evil and so people who do it's work are just power hungry control freaks who try to use the afterlife as a grip on your pocketbook. Man and science are the only things that i believe in."
My response to this is always, well if there is no God, and Religion is fake, then isn't man at fault for making it up? It's always about who has the power. If there is a God then that means that man has no power over his own destiny as you pointed out. If there is no God then man has the power with how far he can advance science to strive for eternal life. Some share the view that Religion was created to cope with death, for after all whats the point of running the rat race, just to not exist at the end? In contrast those can choose not to believe in God because they don't want to accept the fact that someone else is pulling the strings.
Back to the religion topic, do i think God really cares if a ladies skirt is Knee level, or 2 inches below the knee? No i don't think he really cares about the skirt level, after all we where created to not care about our appearance in the Garden of Eden. Are we not suppose to eat pork, or unclean animals, or was he just worried cause they could get sick from eating pigs? My point is you can go on and on all day fighting over the “politics” of religion and miss the entire point of life (and yes it is 42).
Do i like religion? Absolutely not! Religion to me is just how a group of people interpret what they think to be the right way to worship their God. Call it what you want to call it. Do i think one religion is the right and only one? Honestly i don't know the answer to this question.
Can you just read the Bible and do what it says word for word? Has the Bible been changed over the years to say what the people at the time wanted it to say? If you think the Bible has been changed does that mean you don't believe God when he said this is the word of God and do not question it?
Ok... now you see why I'm not a prize winning author of some great selling book. My thoughts are all over the place when i write. The whole point of me tossing this stuff out is to just let you know that all of us (who are worth a damn) question anything and everything to do with Faith. I think God wants us to seek him out and i think that it will all come down to individual acts and faith. I think it's ok to read other religions and to question our own faith, i don't think God likes blind faith, because then what is the point of giving us free will if we just follow blindly down whatever path we see. I think we could spend and eternity trying to answer all of the questions that we have or feel we must find in order to be complete.
I'll leave with this comment, “Occam’s Razor states All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one.” The answer to life, the universe, and everything is 42, yes i know its not really fact, but the point is i think this life is much simpler then we choose to make it.
Be a good person, don't waste your life lusting over material things, know that there is a God who has answers for you one day and that he loves you even though it doesn't seem that way all the time, and know that you have friends who care about your well being. This is what works for me.
Oh and a little tip from H and Myself, if you ever want to have these type conversations with other people, its best to do it with a few drinks...
Okay, time for that more in depth analysis I promised earlier. First let me preface this by saying that becoming a parent is by far and away the most educational and life altering experience that I have ever had, and it will no doubt have a profound effect on my perspective. I believe as adults we grow and gain the tools of knowledge, self analysis, and to some extent wisdom, but we loose the perspective of a child. In our relationship with God, as adults it can be hard for us at times to relate to God as children. Much like parents know much more than their children and must teach their children the concepts of what is hot etc… we also are as children in our relationship with God. While a parent who understands the world much better than a child may appear all-powerful and all-knowing, as parents we understand that while we know much more than our children, our knowledge and understanding is limited as well. Also, from a parent’s perspective, I find it hard to believe that any parent would allow any such things that happen in this world to happen to their children. The rapes and murders and sickness that occur in this world, I find it hard to believe that any conscionable parent who claims to love their children would allow them to endure such things. If then we decide that there is no God, why then do we continue to believe religion? Why do we teach our children of Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny?
I honestly have no definitive answers as well, but I do have the benefit of my experience and perspective (so take it for what it’s worth: $0.02). I was recently watching the Looney Tunes version of Charles Dickens’s classic “A Christmas Carol” with my boys and I found myself for the first time really analyzing the story. The ghosts in the story serve as literary devices to facilitate the realization of the main character of the story (with the assistance of perspective and the concept of eternal punishment) that his greed and actions in dealing with others are what causes their misery (and his) and ultimately it is in his/our best interest to act kindly toward one another. It is in some ways sad that we have to set aside a special time of year to remind ourselves of these basic principles, yet somewhere amid the commercialism and consumerism that is the Yule-tide season we manage to avoid remembering these lessons all together. Ultimately the same could be said of religion that is said of marriage: “If there were no such invention, one would need to be created for the betterment and stability of society.” One must then ask, “As we come to a better understanding of ourselves and the true realities of life, why then continue to believe these things?” The Bible undoubtedly has changes throughout history. The Jews believe only in the Old Testament, the Catholics have extra books in their Bible which are not found in the protestant Bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls and other lost books of the Bible were a part of the teachings that were available early Christians (the History channel has a good show called “Banned from the Bible” which is a good historical look at the progressions of the Bible), so who’s to say which book is right? And these are just a few of the religious groups that believe in roughly the same book! This brings us to the ultimate question “Did God create man, or did man create God?”
Ultimately religion all comes down to a personal choice and it is because this choice is so personal that we must be careful in dealing with other religions as well as our own. I personally choose to believe in a higher power (call it what you will). Aside from the obvious benefit of feeling a sense of purpose and fairness/justice, there are too many coincidences and unexplained events in life to rule out the existence of a higher power. The love that I feel in my heart for my boys and my family and the spirit contained in my body that I call my soul are not completely explainable by science (sure some me be called instinct and social norms, but what creates the instinct?). Also the fact (coincidence) that water expands in a solid state (as opposed to most molecular compounds) accounts for the fact that the surface of the planet is not covered entirely by water (but Global warming is certainly doing it’s part to prove this). The myriad of evolutionary responses that have led us to this point only further illustrate the underlying simplistic design that combines all of these coincidences and offer purpose and meaning. We continually guess at the truth of our existence (with science) with no real concept of the underlying meaning and connection of it all. Scientists tell us that the universe is roughly 300 billion years old, but there is supposedly over 600 billion light years in the known universe and if there was a big bang as scientists theorize, then there must be a central point from where the bang occurred and if light can only travel at the speed of light, the universe should be brighter at the central point where this bang occurred and the far reaches of the universe should just now be receiving light radiation from this Big Bang (Basically when you look a the night sky the center of the universe where the big bang occurred “should” appear brighter, but the night sky appears to have the same background light radiation across the entire universe, think of lighting a match in a dark room). Scientists have come up with the theory of expansion (the universe is expanding) to explain why the background light radiation is the same across the entire universe, but that brings up another issue… If energy is neither created nor destroyed, then how/why is our universe expanding at a rate fast enough to equalize the background light radiation across the universe and how/why is it expanding at a rate faster than light can travel? I have no answers to these questions, but I choose to believe that there is a beautiful simplistic design that connects and explains it all, but because it is my personal belief, I do not hold it above the personal beliefs of another. I believe in a God, but not the popular Christian concept of what god might be, and I would not kill another because their thoughts differ from mine. I remember watching a show on the history channel about Edgar Cayce (a devout Christian prognosticator), and he said that time was “an illusion with purpose.” There is still so much that we don’t understand about ourselves and our existence to rule out the existence of a God, but it would be silly and ignorant/intolerant to kill someone because their beliefs differ from our own (we are all trying to understand our own existence). In short, why can’t we all just get along (which ironically is one of the major principals of most religions that we tend to forget, so really how religious are we?).
Webmaster
**posted from email with permission((
Wellllll, Scott
you know I have to say something now, and of course I do not agree with you and your attempts at theological logic The best response is "son, I will pray for you, that you will receive some divine insight
to clear up these terribly muddled and confused ideas that you are espousing" So...know that
you are being prayed for, that you gain insight and understanding.
I must warn you, I believe in prayer, and so you may have some unsettled days ahead.
My answers to some of your questions/thoughts
God is omnipotent, He does know how things will turn out, but still because He is aloving God, He allows us freedom of choice. Just as any parent, when we make thewrong choices, it saddens Him greatly, but as our heavenly Father, He still allows usto make those choices in our lives. He certainly has the power to command us to do whatever He wills, but what kind of creation would that be? We would only be robots at His beck and call. God created us in His image, meaning He gave us a mind to think for ourselves, to make our own choices. But He also gave us a purpose for
our lives, to love Him, our creator. We simply choose to accept God or reject Him.
Love is something you cannot hold in your hand or take apart, yet it is an intense feeling that when it is there, you know that you know that you know that it is there. Faith is like that, you know that you know that you know. There is a scripture which says that faith is the the substance of things hoped for, the
evidence of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) You know when you sit in a chair that it probably will hold you up, you can look at the
essence of the structure of the chair and size it up, then sit with confidence that the chair will not fold on you. But it required faith in that structure and faith in your knowledge of chairs to make you willing to sit down. The wind is another good example, you know scientifically that wind exists, you cannot see it, you cannot hold it in your hand, but you can see evidence of its effect on nature... just as you can see evidence of the love of God in the lives of people who call Him Lord.
Religion is another thing. Religion is an organized attempt to hold God into a structure that humans can understand. Sometimes that attempt is awkward, sometimes it does not make sense. What really matters is within the soul/the very essence of man. What drives you to be the person you are, what is your purpose here on earth? Religion attempts to
answer that. God answers it. Even less educated men throughout history have attempted to identify and explain about 'higher powers' -- look at sun worshippers, etc Man's soul needs to identify with their source of strength, immortality, and power for it's very existence. The problem is that too many 'religions' have tried to claim a corner on the market and create unnecessary confusion and turmoil, when in my book (the Bible) the answer is
plain and simple. A loving God created the universe and all within it, gave us a way live with a sense of purpose, and a promise of future blessed hope. What more could man
desire?
From a Biblical standpoint, there are countless episodes throughout history when science has validated accounts that are detailed in the Bible. Noah's ark is one example, but there are many, many accounts where science has been able to demonstrate living proof of
things written in the Bible. What does it matter the names of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? There are other names in the Bible equally common, many uncommon. Jacob, Joseph,
Jesus, Nicodemus, Paul, Thaddeus, Timothy. I could go on and on and on. The names are not what is important, what is important is the message they write about.
I hope that gives you something to think about. I will be discussing your dilemma daily as I talk with God. He does answer prayers on a regular basis!
Dr. Nurse
Post a Comment
<< Home